'Shooting Pit'

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'Shooting Pit'

Postby SBinRockrimmon » Sun May 08, 2011 5:01 pm

I see the BOS was considering looking into making a town ordinance to prohibit target shooting on town owned land. I'm not sure the town has the authority to do so. I agree and am sympathetic with the issues that have been raised regarding the local 'shooting pit' but I think the town really should contact an attorney prior to drafting an ordinance that could be as worthless as the paper it is written on....

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/htm ... 59-mrg.htm

159:26 Firearms and Ammunition; Authority of the State. –
I. To the extent consistent with federal law, the state of New Hampshire shall have authority and jurisdiction over the sale, purchase, ownership, use, possession, transportation, licensing, permitting, taxation, or other matter pertaining to firearms, firearms components, ammunition, or firearms supplies in the state. Except as otherwise specifically provided by statute, no ordinance or regulation of a political subdivision may regulate the sale, purchase, ownership, use, possession, transportation, licensing, permitting, taxation, or other matter pertaining to firearms, firearms components, ammunition, or firearms supplies in the state. Nothing in this section shall be construed as affecting a political subdivision's right to adopt zoning ordinances for the purpose of regulating firearms businesses in the same manner as other businesses or to take any action allowed under RSA 207:59.
II. Upon the effective date of this section, all municipal ordinances and regulations not authorized under paragraph I relative to the sale, purchase, ownership, use, possession, transportation, licensing, permitting, taxation, or other matter pertaining to firearms, firearm components, ammunition, or firearms supplies shall be null and void.

Source. 2003, 283:2, eff. July 18, 2003.


I do believe the town should continue the attempts to legally enforce laws already on the books....Such as installing cameras to catch those in the act of destruction of property (cutting the gate), littering etc. I am not a legal expert, so I could very well be reading this wrong. It looks to me as if ONLY the state of NH would be able to authorize such a ban.

I realize this is a different topic, but apparently the BOS in Sandown recently had some controversy on a gun related issue by instituting a ban they weren't authorized to do.

viewtopic.php?f=66&t=2773
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Re: 'Shooting Pit'

Postby curt » Sun May 08, 2011 6:10 pm

I take it you saw the presentation that I led at the BOS meeting on Monday May 2.

It is now on the town web site starting at 37:55:
http://vimeo.com/23383416

We actually did get a legal opinion 4 years ago:
http://www.speakoutdanville.org/documents/Danville.Hunt.Shoot.05-15-07.PS.pdf

Municipalities cannot regulate firearms generally. But there is a specific exemption that allows towns to make regulations for the use of firearms on town property to the same degree that private landowners like me can make decisions about the use of their property.
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Re: 'Shooting Pit'

Postby C L » Mon May 09, 2011 8:09 am

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/htm ... 59-mrg.htm

159:26 Firearms and Ammunition; Authority of the State. –
I. To the extent consistent with federal law, the state of New Hampshire shall have authority and jurisdiction over the sale, purchase, ownership, use, possession, transportation, licensing, permitting, taxation, or other matter pertaining to firearms, firearms components, ammunition, or firearms supplies in the state. Except as otherwise specifically provided by statute, no ordinance or regulation of a political subdivision may regulate the sale, purchase, ownership, use, possession, transportation, licensing, permitting, taxation, or other matter pertaining to firearms, firearms components, ammunition, or firearms supplies in the state. Nothing in this section shall be construed as affecting a political subdivision's right to adopt zoning ordinances for the purpose of regulating firearms businesses in the same manner as other businesses or to take any action allowed under RSA 207:59.
II. Upon the effective date of this section, all municipal ordinances and regulations not authorized under paragraph I relative to the sale, purchase, ownership, use, possession, transportation, licensing, permitting, taxation, or other matter pertaining to firearms, firearm components, ammunition, or firearms supplies shall be null and void.

Source. 2003, 283:2, eff. July 18, 2003.


Does it say anything about discharging said firearms?
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Re: 'Shooting Pit'

Postby curt » Mon May 09, 2011 9:31 am

I think that discharge is covered by the word "use".
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Re: 'Shooting Pit'

Postby C L » Mon May 09, 2011 10:22 am

curt wrote:I think that discharge is covered by the word "use".


Then could I "use" it to cut down trees, hammer in nails, turn lights off and on (well mostly off)?

What exactly is the definition of "use" on a Federal level?
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Re: 'Shooting Pit'

Postby C L » Mon May 09, 2011 10:33 am

644:13 Unauthorized Use of Firearms and Firecrackers. –
I. A person is guilty of a violation if, within the compact part of a town or city, such person fires or discharges any cannon, gun, pistol, or other firearm, except by written permission of the chief of police or governing body.
II. For the purposes of this section, "compact part'' means the territory within a town or city comprised of the following:
(a) Any nonresidential, commercial building, including, but not limited to, industrial, educational, or medical buildings, plus a perimeter 300 feet wide around all such buildings without permission of the owner.
(b) Any park, playground, or other outdoor public gathering place designated by the legislative body of the city or town.
(c) Any contiguous area containing 6 or more buildings which are used as either part-time or permanent dwellings and the spaces between them where each such building is within 300 feet of at least one of the others, plus a perimeter 300 feet wide around all the buildings in such area.
Source. 1971, 518:1. 1991, 164:1. 1996, 161:1, 2, eff. Aug. 2, 1996.


There you go.
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Re: 'Shooting Pit'

Postby SBinRockrimmon » Mon May 09, 2011 3:14 pm

My point was simply the state law that covers use. Apparently I wasn't the only one concerned about it as Curt received a legal opinion from an attorney that he posted above.
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. - Thomas Jefferson

To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. - Thomas Jefferson

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Re: 'Shooting Pit'

Postby SBinRockrimmon » Mon May 09, 2011 3:52 pm

This was in the other thread, but I think these comments are more related to this subject....

C L wrote:Last Sunday there was an unusual amount of shooting (prob in the pit), lot of full auto, large caliber and back and forth, it sounded like a war movie. I don't really care because I do it too but they were also either shooting at propane tanks or Thermite, it shook my windows and even scrambled my tv signal. They staopped after about a dozen of those and I could get back to relaxing on the deck.

Then last Wed night around 10pm someone must of bought themselves a new gun. Several 8 shot runs till around 10:30, that's just dis-respectful.

I don't think the 2nd Amendment actually covers firing your arms, unless you are defending yourself or the country.


While possible I doubt there was any 'full auto' guns in use. A fully automatic 'machine gun' license is both expensive and difficult to get. Not to mention you also give away certain rights. If you have a valid full auto license the you agree to allow the ATF to enter your home at anytime to inspect the storage locations of said firearms. Most fully automatic guns start in the $25k-$30k range. The people that have the $$ to drop on such firearms aren't shooting them at the local pit in Danville.

I fully agree with you that shooting late at night or propane tanks, or thermite is taking it too far. While I own firearms I have never used the local 'pit' here in Danville. I don't like what I'm hearing about items found down there.....The littering bothers me, the alcohol containers is a huge concern. Using firearms can be a fun activity, and using alcohol can be a fun activity, the two should NEVER be combined. I don't have any desire to be spending any time target practicing next to those types of yahoos. There are many local clubs that are inexpensive enough to join and shoot at. Not one of them will allow unsafe behavior or the use of alcohol.

I do believe that shooting at 10:30 at night is uncalled for, but I think you can legally hunt coyote at night; however if someone was firing off 8 shots in succession they weren't hunting.

My reason for starting this thread was only to question if the town (BOS) had the authority and could legally make such an ordinance. I did not state my opinion as to whether or not I think people SHOULD be allowed to go shooting there. For the record I would prefer they didn't as the people that are using it don't seem to be the most responsible type. I'm not a big fan of making more rules and generally prefer to enforce laws already on the books rather than create new ones, but in this case it seems as if it may be warranted.
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. - Thomas Jefferson

To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. - Thomas Jefferson

Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one. - Benjamin Franklin
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Re: 'Shooting Pit'

Postby shawn_oneil » Mon May 09, 2011 3:55 pm

Town meeting would be required. We cannot ban just 'shooting' as that would eliminate hunting. I think any type of Warrant Article that would be voted on would need to allow hunting with defined parameters. I believe the Board has the power to regulate the road Tucker/Tuckertown (depending who you are talking too) for motorized vehicles now (this is how they are getting to this location) and not wait until a WA is presented/passed in March 2012.
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Re: 'Shooting Pit'

Postby C L » Tue May 10, 2011 7:38 am

It was definately full auto, I've shot my fair share of them and I agree that that they are very expensive and difficult to own and not likely to be used at "the pit" which is what concerned me even more, where they "homemade"?

There is also shooting going on on power lines, and like you said, littering, drinking and irresponsible shooting.

I think any type of Warrant Article that would be voted on would need to allow hunting with defined parameters.

Yeah, just use the hunting guidlines which only allow shotguns at specified times of year.


Another solution would be to go in there with a backhoe and take down the berm.
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Re: 'Shooting Pit'

Postby curt » Tue May 10, 2011 9:09 am

It's not just a berm There is rock behind it.
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Re: 'Shooting Pit'

Postby SBinRockrimmon » Tue May 10, 2011 8:59 pm

C L wrote:It was definately full auto, I've shot my fair share of them and I agree that that they are very expensive and difficult to own and not likely to be used at "the pit" which is what concerned me even more, where they "homemade"?


It could have been a product like this that is legal and considered to be a "bump fire" to use the recoil to fire another round...

http://www.slidefiresolutions.com/Products.html
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. - Thomas Jefferson

To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. - Thomas Jefferson

Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one. - Benjamin Franklin
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Re: 'Shooting Pit'

Postby shawn_oneil » Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm

C L wrote:Yeah, just use the hunting guidlines which only allow shotguns at specified times of year.


I agree. We would also need to take into consideration small game seasons, duck season, and rabbit season.

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Re: 'Shooting Pit'

Postby SBinRockrimmon » Tue May 10, 2011 11:10 pm

shawn_oneil wrote:I believe the Board has the power to regulate the road Tucker/Tuckertown (depending who you are talking too) for motorized vehicles now (this is how they are getting to this location) and not wait until a WA is presented/passed in March 2012.
Shawn


If there were restrictions on motorized vehicles, couldn't some permanent barriers be put into place instead of relying on the gate that keeps getting cut? Perhaps some boulders would do the trick.

On the other hand I would prefer to see the cameras set up and some people caught in the act. I agree that word will spread quick if a few people are caught and charged.

if access is required I hope the BOS decides to ban motorized vehicles they consider exemptions for police, town, utility and service vehicles. I think this would allow broad discretion as to who is allowed access.

On a side note I've heard the discussion about trying different material on the gate pin to prevent cutting it.....As a person who works around tools and construction trades, that plain and simply there isn't a material that would work. ANYTHING can be cut using tools readily available today. If a sawzall blade wont cut it a battery operated grinder with a cutting wheel will go through just about anything. Whoever is cutting the gate clearly has the desire and access to such tools.
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. - Thomas Jefferson

To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. - Thomas Jefferson

Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one. - Benjamin Franklin
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Re: 'Shooting Pit'

Postby C L » Wed May 11, 2011 7:56 am

SBinRockrimmon wrote:
C L wrote:It was definately full auto, I've shot my fair share of them and I agree that that they are very expensive and difficult to own and not likely to be used at "the pit" which is what concerned me even more, where they "homemade"?


It could have been a product like this that is legal and considered to be a "bump fire" to use the recoil to fire another round...

http://www.slidefiresolutions.com/Products.html


It's possible, but the rate of fire was like a MAC10...........BTW, thats a pretty cool product.
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