Health Insurance Reform 0f 2009

[Rob C]

But again, do you think people should be forced to buy something? If you refuse you will be jailed. This doesn't sound to American to me.
Shawn

We are already doing this with taxes. We all pay in to Medicare and SS and if we don't we can go to jail.

I had a conversation with a physician with roots in India. He told me when you come to the hospital in India with chest pain you go one of two routes. They either rush you to the cath lab, perform angioplasty, use stents and if that doesn't work they move you to the OR for bypass or, if you don't have the cash, they hold your hand.

I think the heart of the problem here (no pun intended) is that we have a system that will not and should not turn anyone away. We deal with the life and health of people first and then worry about the financials. When people getting hurt without insurance the rest of us end up picking up the bill. Hospital reimbursements from Medicare are dependent on a lot of factors, one of them being indigent care. The hospitals with higher indigent care rates receive more $ from the feds to help keep them in the black. This won't change unless we either take steps to get everyone insured OR we simply not treat those that don't have the cash. The latter doesn't sound very American to me...

[SBinRockrimmon]

Many young people choose to remain uninsured. They tend to need less medical care in general. I foresee that many 20-30 year olds will remain uninsured under this new plan. It will cost less to pay the fine than the insurance costs. Under this plan you will NOT be denied insurance for preexisting conditions. Since you cannot be denied it will be worth it to pay the fine each year, and then sign onto the insurance plan if you get a condition that requires more intensive care. How will all of that relate to the overall budget of keeping insurance "affordable"? This will greatly sway the numbers, so then who picks up the tab?

It may even cost me less to pay the fine, if I get cancer I can't be refused insurance, so why not save a few bucks now and just get the insurance later if I need it?

[Rob C]

Many young people choose to remain uninsured. They tend to need less medical care in general. I foresee that many 20-30 year olds will remain uninsured under this new plan. It will cost less to pay the fine that the insurance costs. Under this plan you will NOT be denied insurance for preexisting conditions. Since you cannot be denied it will be worth it to pay the fine each year, and then sign onto the insurance plan if you get a condition that requires more intensive care. How will all of that relate to the overall budget of keeping insurance "affordable"? This will greatly sway the numbers, so then who picks up the tab?

It may even cost me less to pay the fine, if I get cancer I can't be refused insurance, so why not save a few bucks now and just get the insurance later if I need it?

This mindset would completely defeat the purpose. I suppose this scenario provides a rationale to increase the fine to the point where it's not logical to opt out.

Obtaining insurance with pre-existing conditions doesn't help once an emergent situation has been taken care of and you're staring at the bill. I guess it's a risk some might see worth taking and it is indeed a hurdle that must be overcome for this to work.

[SBinRockrimmon]

This mindset would completely defeat the purpose. I suppose this scenario provides a rationale to increase the fine to the point where it's not logical to opt out.

Obtaining insurance with pre-existing conditions doesn't help once an emergent situation has been taken care of and you're staring at the bill. I guess it's a risk some might see worth taking and it is indeed a hurdle that must be overcome for this to work.

So the solution is higher fines or face jail time? What about the people that don't have the money for the higher fines? Personally I'd rather see prisons filled with criminals instead of people who don't want forced health care. I'm sorry, but I just don't see them as the hardened criminal type. This will only punish the people that are already having a hard time making ends meet.

[shawn_oneil]

We are already doing this with taxes. We all pay in to Medicare and SS and if we don't we can go to jail.

I had a conversation with a physician with roots in India. He told me when you come to the hospital in India with chest pain you go one of two routes. They either rush you to the cath lab, perform angioplasty, use stents and if that doesn't work they move you to the OR for bypass or, if you don't have the cash, they hold your hand.

I think the heart of the problem here (no pun intended) is that we have a system that will not and should not turn anyone away. We deal with the life and health of people first and then worry about the financials. When people getting hurt without insurance the rest of us end up picking up the bill. Hospital reimbursements from Medicare are dependent on a lot of factors, one of them being indigent care. The hospitals with higher indigent care rates receive more $ from the feds to help keep them in the black. This won't change unless we either take steps to get everyone insured OR we simply not treat those that don't have the cash. The latter doesn't sound very American to me...

Congress has the ability to levy taxes as outline in the Constitution. I don't recall the right to force someone to buy something. If you disagree please point me to those passages that allows this type of Gov't forced purchasing.
I also agree with SBin's comments about the fines/prison and taking up health insurance when a health issue arises.
Shawn

ps. I also think it is not very American to be paying for illegal aliens who are in our country illegally and rewarding them with Health care as Rob just outline. I'll leave the other free services they have as well since this is a Health Care discussion.

[Rob C]

So the solution is higher fines or face jail time? What about the people that don't have the money for the higher fines? Personally I'd rather see prisons filled with criminals instead of people who don't want forced health care. I'm sorry, but I just don't see them as the hardened criminal type. This will only punish the people that are already having a hard time making ends meet.

Not if it's done right.

I don't believe the jails are filling up in MA with their mandated insurance plan.

[curt]

Or in the Netherlands or Germany. I did some quick googling to see if non-compliance was a problem and came up dry. Doesnn't mean there is nothing out there, of course.

[SBinRockrimmon]

Not if it's done right.

I don't believe the jails are filling up in MA with their mandated insurance plan.

Is this the MA plan you are refering to? The one that is crushing the states budget?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123811121310853037.html

How about these warnings?


http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/co ... 570390.htm

Still, some Bay Staters are gaming the system. Dr. Marylou Buyse, president of the Massachusetts Association of Health Plans, says most of the state's insurers have had cases where people sign up for insurance for a few months, have lots of medical procedures, and then drop coverage. "Their health-care claims tend to be two to three times higher than the average," says Buyse. "That's a good argument for having a fairly tough mandate." The association is now studying ways to close off this loophole.

Instilling an Insurance Culture
Despite the overall success of the Massachusetts mandate, economists warn against assuming the rest of the nation will follow suit. The measure had extremely high popular support in the state and passed the legislature with only two votes against. Elsewhere—particularly in the South and Southwest, where uninsurance rates and distrust of the government are both high—people may not be so eager to sign up.

[Rob C]

Interesting that Rush feels the one state health care system closest to socialized medicine in the US (not to mention the unionized RNs that took care of him) is the best care the world has to offer....HA!!!

"The treatment I received here was the best that the world has to offer,” Limbaugh said. “Based on what happened here to me, I don't think there's one thing wrong with the American health care system. It is working just fine, just dandy."

[SBinRockrimmon]

Nothing's too good for Canada's elite......

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2510700

N.L. Premier Williams set to have heart surgery in U.S.

ST. JOHN'S, N.L. -- Newfoundland Premier Danny Williams will undergo heart surgery later this week in the United States.

Deputy premier Kathy Dunderdale confirmed the treatment at a news conference Tuesday, but would not reveal the location of the operation or how it would be paid for.

"He has gone to a renowned expert in the procedure that he needs to have done," said Ms. Dunderdale, who will become acting premier while Mr. Williams is away for three to 12 weeks.

"In consultation with his own doctors, he's decided to go that route."

Mr. Williams' decision to leave Canada for the surgery has raised eyebrows over his apparent shunning of Canada's health-care system.

"It was never an option offered to him to have this procedure done in this province," said Ms. Dunderdale, refusing to answer whether the procedure could be done elsewhere in Canada.

Mr. Williams, 59, has said nothing of his health in the media.

"The premier has made a commitment that once he's through this procedure and he's well enough, he's going to talk about the whole process and share as much detail with you as he's comfortable to do at that time," she said.

Ms. Dunderdale wouldn't say where in the U.S. Mr. Williams is seeking treatment.

A popular Progressive Conservative premier, Mr. Williams has also seen his share of controversy. During the 2008 federal election, Mr. Williams vehemently opposed the Conservative government, launching his "Anything But Conservative" -- which has been credited with keeping the Tories from winning any seats in the province.

He's also drawn criticism for his support of the seal hunt.

[shawn_oneil]

I heard that when asked why he had the procedure done in the US it was because no one could do it in Canada.
Shawn

[curt]

Well that's no surprise. The US population is 300 million and the Canadian population is 30 million. Plus which, Boston is a center of excellence for medicine and there are direct flights from St. Johns NL to Boston.

[curt]

A fight the GOP might want to lose

David Frum, National Post Published: Saturday, February 06, 2010

You know, if the Democrats want the government to take over American health care, they actually have a simpler option than passing legislation through Congress. They can just do nothing. The government is taking over all by itself.

In the United States, government pays the health costs of the retired (through Medicare), the poor (through Medicaid), lower-income young people (through a program called SChip), plus federal employees, veterans and native Americans.

On Thursday, the U.S. government's main source of health statistics, the federal Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, released an amazing statistic: Together, federal and state health-care programs now spend more on health than the private U.S. economy. In other words, the U.S. health system is now majority government funded. On its present course, the government share will grow even faster after 2015, as the Baby Boomers qualify for Medicaid.

Read more: National Post article
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